Trouble maker Sr+ (Salmon red+)

Onwanted leftovers of "red" in Silver birds! Could it be the effect of "e+" Salmon red?

Not so much is investigated and written about the action of Salmon red what is an effect of the alleles e+.

That it excist and that it give onwanted leftovers of "red" in Silver birds, is a much encountered difficulty!! On S/s+ and S/S cocks and on S/- hens, for generations that Salmon red can spoil the crisp white appearance of silver birds. It appears on shoulders, wing triangle, hackle and saddle of Silver cocks and causes a rusty/brassy sheen on Silver hens most on breast, neck, wingbow and the saddle region.

Mh also can enhances that Salmon red to darker red which is also a red pigment just as gold is.

Our Silkies should be eb/eb which have NO salmon red !!

In the past there were made several crosses with other races as Brahma, Cochins, Faverolles ... to improve details in our Silkies as colours, shape, beards ... Most of these races were originally e+/e+ birds which could explain that several of or Silkies are now e+/eb birds, meaning with that one allel "e+" came that Salmon red the trouble maker in our Silver Silkies!!

On e+/e+ and e+/eb as well with s+/- as S/- hens we can see a "Salmon red" concentrated on the breastfeathers, what is the effect of that e+.

The only remedy is selection: to become again pure eb/eb Silver birds without that troublemaker Salmon red.

is this responsible of the rusty or brassy shine on a cuckoo or barred bird also ???

or could it be something else ???

If the coucou is E/e+ S/s+,S/S our s+/- B/b+,B/B our B/-, yes!!
it is that one allel e+ in the E/e+ that causes the trouble.

so if the coucou is E/E, i should not have this problem !!!!

Yes if the coucou is E/E S/S B/B or B/b+ for a cock and E/E S/- B/- for the hen than from nowhere can come any red!!

In this particulair case the "red" problem can be 3 things;
- the salmon red of e+ or eWh (because this also contains salmon red)
- the gold of s+
- the possible presence of Mh

As you see the thing is to breed the genes pure as E/E and S/S. For the B/b+ there is no problem because this means B is Barred and b+ is NOT Barred nothing else comes take that place.

But for E/e+ this means E is Extended black and e+ is wild partridge. As for S/s+ means S is Silver and s+ is NOT silver BUT gold!!! These two (E/e+ and S/s+) are onpure genes?

As the word say itself "unpure" is about the same as your "les "copies" ne vaudront jamais les "originaux""

oh oh, Danny devient costaud en langue francaise !

Très intéressant ...merci Danny et NEPTUNE bien sur!!

Il faut comprendre lof2box le français n'est pas facile pour moi. L'englais est plus facile. Mais au début on ma promis pas de problème si je écrivais en englais!!!!

Qui très intéresant Bantam mais il faut un peu de replique structuré a cette sugets parce que aussi pour moi cela est un problème comme vous voyez j'ai écrit en manière conditionnelle!!!

Ah, je comprends maintenant!!

C'est bien cela sur le photo que je veux dire.
Pour moi cela n'est pas un restant du s+ (si cétait un coq S/s+ cela peut être le cas)
Mais comme ici c'est une poule S/- cela doit être quelque chose d'autre.
Comme vous dites l’intensité du doré laisse penser que Mh est présent dans cette souche.
Mais (pour moi) le Mh ne peut pas acté seule, il est itensifiquer du pigments rouges s+ ou e+ (froment).
Comme la poule ici est S/- le seule rouge qui reste est le rouge froment itensifier par le Mh.

Ma question particulière est: le Mh peut t'il acté tout seul (sans le s+ ou le e+ ou le eWh)???
Autrement dit le Mh est t'il un pigments rouge indépendent???

my conclusion:

Something to stand still for:



Onwanted leftovers of "red" in our on pure Silver based birds!!!

Could it be the effect of "e+" Salmon red ???

e+ is autosomal = on both sexes.



Not so much is investigated and written about the Salmon red as on the breast of e+ hens

(what is the effect of that e+).

That it excist and that it give onwanted leftovers of "red" in Silver based birds, is a much encountered difficulty!! On cocks S/S and on hens S/- , for generations these "red leftovers" can spoil the crisp white appearance of silver based birds. It appears on shoulders, wing triangle, hackle and saddle of Silver based cocks and causes a rusty/brassy sheen on Silver based hens most on breast, neck, wingbow and the saddle region.

Mh also enhances that e+ Salmon red to darker red, as it do to s+, which is also a red pigment just as gold is.

Our Silkies should be eb/eb which have NO Salmon red !!

In the past there were made several crosses with other races as Brahma, Cochins, Faverolles ... to improve details in our Silkies as colours, shape, beards ... Most of these races were originally e+/e+ birds which could explain that several of or Silkies are now e+/eb birds, meaning with that one allel "e+" came that Salmon red the possible trouble maker in our pure Silver based Silkies!!

On e+/e+ and e+/eb, as well with s+/- as S/-, hens we can see a Salmon red concentrated on the breastfeathers, what is the effect of that e+.



Also birds with E/e+ and E/eWh as well as their diluted forms with "Bl "or "lav" can suffer of these onwanted "red leftovers"



Mostley when we see red spots on silver based birds they are dark red!

So we could conclude that the s+ alone (without Mh) and the e+ Salmon red alone (without Mh)

are NOT able to come to the surface under S/S or S/- once Mh is present {s+ Mh} and {e+ Mh}

and also when diluted {s+ Mh Di} and {e+ Mh Di}



these onwanted red leftovers can come to the surface!


The S and the c and the Bl as the lav themself, shall also have some influence on the intensity of the red that sometimes come to the surface.



The only remedy is selection:

to become again pure eb/eb and E/E PURE Silver based birds without that onwanted trouble maker



" e+ Salmon red reinforced by Mh who is the real trouble maker"

" e+ Salmon red reinforced by Mh who is the real trouble maker"

C'est sans doute une possibilité mais dans mon élevage de barbu d'Uccle je pense que "EWh reinforced by Mh is a real trouble maker too".

Voici une photo représentant des poussins on voit nettement les "vrais" 1000 fleurs basé sur eb et aussi d'autres sur EWh et même un sur e+.

Yes exact I changed that onliner:

e+/eWh "Salmon red" reinforced by Mh who is the real trouble maker!

And I rephrased the story to:


Unwanted leftovers of "red" in our on pure Silver based birds!!!

Could it be the effect of "e+" Salmon red ???

e+ is autosomal = on both sexes.


Not so much is investigated and written about the Salmon red as on the breast of e+ hens

(which is the effect of that e+).

That it exist and that it causes unwanted leftovers of "red" in Silver based birds, is a much encountered difficulty!! On cocks S/S and on hens S/- , for generations these "red leftovers" can spoil the crisp white appearance of silver based birds. It appears on shoulders, wing triangle, hackle and saddle of Silver (pure S/S) based cocks and causes a rusty/brassy sheen on Silver (always pure S/-) based hens most on breast, neck, wingbow and the saddle region.

Mh also enhances that e+ Salmon red to darker red, as it do to s+, which is also a red pigment just as gold is.

Our Silkies should be eb/eb which have NO Salmon red !!

In the past there were made several crosses with other breeds as Brahma, Cochins, Faverolles ... to improve details in our Silkies as colours, shape, beards ... Most of these breeds were originally e+/e+ birds which could explain that several of or Silkies are now e+/eb birds, meaning with that one allel "e+" came that Salmon red the possible trouble maker in our pure Silver based Silkies!!

§


On e+/e+ and e+/eb hens, as well with s+/- as S/-, we can see a Salmon red concentrated on the breastfeathers, which is the effect of that e+ gene.

But we may not forget that the Weaten eWh/eWh birds also possess that Salmon red but in a much more diluted way and spread over the compleet bodyfeathers of the hens, which is the effect of that eWh gene.

§


Mostley when we see red spots on silver based birds they are dark red!

So we could conclude that the s+ gold alone (without Mh) and the e+ Salmon red alone (without Mh)

and the eWh Salmon red alone (without Mh) are NOT able to come to the surface under S/S or S/-


But once Mh is combinated with {s+ Mh} or {e+ Mh} or {eWh Mh}

as well in diluted form {s+ Mh Di} or {e+ Mh Di} or {eWh Mh Di}

these onwanted "red leftovers" surely CAN come to the surface!


The "S" the "c" the "Bl" as the "lav" themself, shall also have some influence on the intensity of the red intensified by the Mh , as well as certain hormones, when it comes to the surface.



The only remedy is selection:


to become again pure eb/eb and E/E * PURE Silver based birds without that onwanted trouble maker we must get rid of the "e+" and the "eWh" in our Silver based Silkies because that "Mh" stick on it !!

* also black birds with E/e+ and E/eWh instead of the pure black E/E as well as their diluted forms "Bl /bl+ - Bl/Bl" or "lav/lav" , when they posess the gene Mh/Mh or even Mh/mh+ is enough, can suffer of these unwanted "red leftovers" when not reinforced with Ml (Melanotic),



even recessif white c/c birds can have that problem when they have that "reinforcer Mh"

in them out of previous buff enchestors {eWh/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh Di/Di s+/s+} for example: